*** Now talking in #sentimental
<even>  i am here
*** uboy (lamarcs@166-197-183.ipt.aol.com) has joined 
<uboy>  hello
<uboy>  its lamar
<uboy>  somewas using my nickname
<uboy>  someone
<even>  i know
<even>  hi hi hi
<uboy>  hello
<uboy>  did you chat with other lamar?
<even>  no but you should finger him...
<even>  or her
<even>  !
<uboy>  i might try later
<even>  good morning
<even>  it is screens of fuck you! very rude
<uboy>  thanks, how are you?
<even>  drunk
<uboy>  lovely
<even>  went to lunch with parents and had 2 bottles of wine... 
<even>  and it is only 5:20
<uboy>  wow!!!
<uboy>  an early start...
<even>  but i shall endevour to be creative
<uboy>  as shall i
<even>  my connection is slow... might get disconnected... how 
  are you, sleepy?
<uboy>  no, not too bad .... been up for sevaeral hours
<even>  i edited our 2 other talks and they are actually 
  postable... quite personal yet interesting and things are 
  said... slightly on the confessional side, hmm
<uboy>  i don't remeber being too confessional
<uboy>  can you send?
<even>  it is just the honesty of it all, opening up the process 
<uboy>  yes, that's good
<uboy>  that's where things will happen
<uboy>  our own things
<even>  indeed
<uboy>  i'd like too see your edit
<uboy>  can you send
<uboy>  ?
<even>  i will send later it is long and in word so needs to be 
<even>  were you able to prepare?
<uboy>  ok, look forward to that later
<uboy>  yes, i have some thoughts
<even>  i think the chats will work well as it is so personal 
  really even with the shit cut out
<even>  never thought i'd say that
<uboy>  yes,  i think it's better to just go with the flow, then 
   edit later
<even>  yes
<uboy>  more chance that something great will happen
<even>  so did you prepare?
<uboy>  yes,  where to start?
<uboy>  well..
<even>  .
<even>  .
<even>  So what do you find interesting about these stories? 
<uboy>  yes, content is an area i was thinking about
<uboy>  aswell
<uboy>  it is a crucial point
<even>  i have been reading a lot about M Barney and feel 
<uboy>  no necessaarily
<even>  not surely
<uboy>  he constrcuts his operettas
<uboy>  his own metaphor world
<even>  but he is all about the thrid sex which is auto-sexual 
  meaning autoerotic
<even>  metaphor is another device which is as easy as irony, too 
  easy, certainly avoidable
<even>  metaphor is another device which is as easy as irony, too 
  easy, certainly avoidable
<even>  metaphor is another device which is as easy 
  as irony, too easy, certainly avoidable
<even>  opps
<uboy>  so nice, you said it thrice
<uboy>  ]but, i agree
<even>  metaphor is the only way anything can have 
<uboy>  so, parallel is the alternative, right
<even>  no parallel is possibly metaphor in disguise 
  (for the 90's)
<uboy>  it's simile
<even>  and belly-laughs
<uboy>  right...
<uboy>  exactly
<even>  whatever they are as i dont find eith R or L 
<uboy>  just another space in which to work
<even>  what do you think that means
<even>  so clued it it hurts?
<even>  so clued in, it hurts?
<uboy>  no
<even>  ?
<uboy>  tihnking, just a moment
<even>  space is not an end or way alone as an 
  answer, it is an easy excuse to be permentlay 
<uboy>  there must be a way of avoiding being vague
<uboy>  space is just a new set of terms for old 
<even>  I guess thatÕs what double indemnity is 
<uboy>  or a double bind
<uboy>  so can we avoid being vague?
<uboy>  can we say what we mean?
<even>  a conceited duplicity or the actual 
  acknowlegement of it as being there (when it 
  always has been)
<even>  ah meaning...
<even>  meaing implies a singularity of thought
<even>  meaning
<uboy>  yes, a fixed or final meaning
<even>  no
<uboy>  we can have multiples
<uboy>  though
<even>  yes... they are with us.., they used to 
  be called levels
<even>  or does that imply hierarchy?
<uboy>  yes, then they became angles
<even>  lol
<even>  laughs out loud
<uboy>  yes
<uboy>  me too
<even>  what is the obvious solution to the 
  symbolic problem
<uboy>  so, all the dialogue stuff is about 
   reserving judgement
<even>  or avoiding it as Thomas McEvilly says, 
  "jugement is wrong"
<even>  so naive
<uboy>  to a degree
<even>  ?
<uboy>  whats happens if we employ something 
   like that?
<even>  Nothing is arbitrary, thatÕs the scam, 
  thatÕs what makes it great
<uboy>  how could we even
<uboy>  we must make editing decissions
<even>  yes for concision only
<uboy>  that's why it can only work to a degree.. i.e a 
   scam i guess
<uboy>  so are we giving up?
<even>  no sideways is no defeatist
<uboy>  abandoning the ship in dry dock?
<even>  discussing gravity again?
<uboy>  but we admit our reservations about the process?
<even>  revealing it is a beautiful thing?
<even>  or lazy?
<uboy>  there we are again... saying what we mean
<uboy>  or intend
<even>  really?
<uboy>  we have to commit to a position of resignation...
    if that's one we chose
<uboy>  not lazy thgough
<uboy>  though
<uboy>  can we pull this off?
<even>  sure
<even>  i have joined lots of channels to see if anyone 
  joins us!
<even>  back to barney...
<uboy>  yes
<even>          the mythic is such an artistic cliché 
  especially regarding allegory which is medieval
<uboy>  let's hope
<uboy>  ok
<even>          displacing the phallus for the testicles is 
  third sexual apparently as they can also be 
  ovaries... which oragn to we preferance?
<uboy>  the third sex
<even>  very good
<uboy>  we hopefully are avoiding all his myth and pomp
<uboy>  we are aboveboard
<uboy>  and to the side
<even>  pomp is could be, if we had the budget, or is it 
  resourcefulness tht makes others jealous? so easy to 
  write it off?
<uboy>  we are not creating our own deep vocabulary
<even>  but i thought we wanted too
<uboy>  vague, perhaps but not deep
<even>  he is very similar to L only more 
  spectacle orientated, manybe it is that 
  distruct of the SPECTACLE that sets him 
  apart, narrative is twisted in a similar 
  way but...
<even>  distrust
<uboy>  the fluidity with which they handle 
   their self made worlds is similar
<uboy>  along with their belief in their 
<uboy>  that's why i ask how committed we 
<even>  i am
<uboy>  or how much we believe in the 
<uboy>  as am i
<even>  in so much as it fulfills this 
  experiment... leads somewhere
<uboy>  yes.. good... what is our destinatio
<even>  You mean a kind of terminal 
  narcissism, I donÕt think itÕs very 
<even>  !
<uboy>  !
<even>  do you have any prefabs?
<uboy>  prefabs?
<even>  words
<uboy>  to paste in?  no
<even>  yes
<uboy>  lets' keep going with the destination
<uboy>  potentially important
<even>  our destination is at one level the exhibition 
  but it is only part of a wider discussion
<uboy>  yes, it seems that there should be a larger 
*** orfeas (me@stp_g04-44_pc.sunderland.ac.uk) has 
joined #sentimental
<even>  so we aim to make things but these things are 
  not complete or free-standing without another 
  something... a lot like metaphor
<even>  hi orfeas
<orfeas>  ok???
<orfeas>  hello!!!
<even>  what do you think about metaphor orfeas?
<uboy>  true, there's  a network connecting it all
<uboy>  hello orf
<orfeas>  how are u??
<even>  trying to figure out the difference
<uboy>  just fine
<orfeas>  hello Orfeas isn't it a nice name??
<even>  yes are you entangled in a greek tragedy?
<orfeas>  What do u think alan??
<orfeas>  hello???
<even>  well you tell me
<orfeas>  which differance??
<orfeas>  Something like that I'm greek...
<even>  uboy will explain
<orfeas>  I tell you I'm greek and I study in 
<uboy>  we were talking about metaphor and other ways of 
   constructing meaning
*** correy (~thatme@ has joined 
<orfeas>  Everything ok??
*** correy (~thatme@ has 
left #sentimental
<even>  hi correy
<orfeas>  you don't talk too much why???
<even>  what could be better?
<orfeas>  Very philosophical isn't it??
<uboy>  not terribly
<even>  no we are talking about art... 
<uboy>  tell us something sentimental
<even>  art is not philo... just sweet
<orfeas>  Sorry alan but correy...
<even>  what about him?
<even>  what is the obvious solution to the 
  symbolic problem?
<orfeas>  so what??
<even>  huh?
<even>  uboy?
<uboy>  hello
<uboy>  just enjoying the moment
<even>  an anxiety reaction with hysterical 
<orfeas>  Thanks
*** acidboy (~tmoran@craic.iol.ie) has 
joined #sentimental
<acidboy> hey
<even>  hello
<uboy>  hello
<acidboy> whassup all
<uboy>  where were we?
<even>  we are not sentimental just talking 
  about art hopefully
<acidboy> oh right
<orfeas>  who??
<orfeas>  can u be more specific??
<acidboy> artspific
<even>  there is a kind of sentimentality 
  that can be black, cruel and funny 
  without being syrupy... any thoughts?
<acidboy> ugh
<orfeas>  hello???
*** acidboy (~tmoran@craic.iol.ie) has left 
<uboy>  well..
<even>  that frightened him away unfortunetly
<even>  orp? do you know what we are on about?
<orfeas>  what??
<even>  uboy help
<uboy>  yes
<orfeas>  help apoor greek!!!
<uboy>  any thoughts on art orf?
<even>  in your greek learning what do they 
  say about metaphor?
<orfeas>  no not this time!!!
<uboy>  much i reckon
<orfeas>  what do y want to learn specificall
<even>  to understand if it is a valid way 
  of having meaning arrive 
<uboy>  how else do we construct meaning?
<uboy>  do we want to?
<even>  the simpsons are chirping 
  in my background, do they mean 
  though metaphor or is it all a 
  belly laugh?
<orfeas>  sorry but I can't follow 
   you lads
*** turtle_ (~turtle@ts13-02.dublin
.indigo.ie) has joined #sentimental
<turtle> sentimental...
<even>  please try please we want 
  you to
<turtle> may i ask wot ...
<even>  hi turtel
<uboy>  hello
<turtle> hey ub
<even>  we are talking about art... 
<turtle> :)
<even>  ?)
<orfeas>  Greek art please
<uboy>  art and metaphor
<uboy>  is that the route we should 
   take to amke meaning
<uboy>  ?
<even>  ok, was Orphesis a metaphor 
  for anything or a silly story 
  about love
<uboy>  should we care about 
<even>  too deep uboy
<uboy>  yes, move aside
<uboy>  ways
<even>  what is ill-defined polymorp
  hous passion ?
<uboy>  perhaps love then is a good 
<even>  can you have sentimental 
<uboy>  i've tried
<orfeas>  sure!!!
<even>  in what way?
<orfeas>  In all the ways
<even>  you mean always?
<orfeas>  ok   some times
<even>  what do you think of when 
  having it?
<orfeas>  nice experience don't 
   forget I live in greece i'm a 
   hot person
<uboy>  yes, what makes it different
<uboy>  ?
<orfeas>  xa xa xa
<even>  you mean you love youself 
<orfeas>  It's quite obvous I think
<even>  well?
<orfeas>  no no no
<orfeas>  I'm just joking 
<orfeas>  I love my partner most!!!
<even>  do you think masturbating 
  is sentimental?
<uboy>  you give yourself totally 
   to your partner?
<uboy>  you keep nothing?
<orfeas>  if he can drive me crazy 
   yes why not??#
<even>  turtle?
<orfeas>  many things I keep in 
   order to surprize him!!!
<orfeas>  It reminds me talk show 
   the whole chat!!!!
<orfeas>  friendly!!!
<even>  dont understand
*** Now talking in #sentimental
<even>  they ahve gone
<even>  i got cut off... had problems
<uboy>  yes, everyone was cut off
<uboy>  except for me
<even>  our crap server
<uboy>  well, did we learn any lessons?
<uboy>  from our little experiment?
<even>  that it takes a long tim e to make a point
<even>  i saved tho
<uboy>  yes
*** correy (~thatme@ has joined #sentimental
<even>  we need questions for others
<uboy>  i did as well
<even>  ho correy
<uboy>  hello
<even>  what were we talking about?
<uboy>  yes, we need plan ahead for when things slow down
<even>  sentimental masturbating?
<correy>  hi
<uboy>  yes, that was it
<even>  i was cutting and pasting fun stuff i thought
<uboy>  so did i
<uboy>  they didn't though
<even>  i know
*** skier (uk@dialup84-pm-terminus.d-n-a.net) has joined 
<even>  vagueness has limits?
<even>  hi skier
<uboy>  any thoughts on sentimental masturbating, correy?
<skier>  i followed u here in good faith!
<even>  sorry
<uboy>  hello
<even>  lol
<even>  but its a serious question actually
<correy>  would that include mstrbtin an ex for old times sake
<uboy>  do we know skier?
<even>  not really but possibly... really on your own i guess 
  with certain toys or special things or contraptions?
<skier>  i know correy does:)
<even>  these are folks from gay-ireland uboy... i invited them
<uboy>  welcome all
<even>  share correy
<correy>  i like doing it holding my fav teddy
<even>  like i have this special corn cob I keep for private 
  special reasons
<correy>  what about u uboy u have a special toy
<uboy>  no, just a pillow i know very well...
<even>  where do you put that?
<correy>  do you hav a fav fantasy
<uboy>  it's rather large..
<correy>  the pillow
<skier>  locker room:)
<uboy>  it will take many shapes, etc.
<even>  fantasy is another element we haven't discussed enough, 
  or is it the really real interfering again?
<correy>  ah the locker room fantasy
<skier>  predictable:)
<uboy>  you mean, where do the real and fantasy meet?
<uboy>  it can often be disappointing
<even>  but that is someones elses, it comes from commercial 
  porn, do you have only other peoples  fantasies?
<correy>  is not all fanasy based in reality
<even>  fantasy is based on underachievement
<skier>  huh?
<correy>  but is escaping from reality not essential
<even>  you cant have it, never will, you are a loser (no offence)
<uboy>  are we hopelessly entangled in the real?
<uboy>  how dod we escape?
<uboy>  do
<skier>  well u come 2 my lockeroom. if u don't have a long lasting 
   lusty fantasy afterward...
<skier>  then ur just plain boring
<even>  the real is only a fantasy as the old 4ders
<even>  where is your lockerroom?
<skier>  at school
<uboy>  any equipment there?
<skier>  plenty - if u know how 2 use it:)
<uboy>  i may...  give details
<even>  is that ill-defined polymorphous passion ?
<skier>  use ur imagination :D
<even>  he just wants stories
<skier>  it's a public school - lots of rugby guys
<correy>  bye guys
<even>  thanks
<uboy>  later correy
<skier>  see ya
<even>  what about girls?
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<even>  yikes
<even>  a coffee morning
<uboy>  hello amstel and farmer
<Amstel>  hi even
<FarmerP>  i thought this was where it is all supposed to be 
<FarmerP>  Hi uboy
<Amstel>  whats up0 guys?
<even>  it is we were just saying
<even>  correy was sharing a fantasy and left
<FarmerP>  Ahh - I just missed it then :-((
<uboy>  yes, where fantasy meets reality
<FarmerP>  :-)) 
<FarmerP>  LOL
<even>  can it happen?
<FarmerP>  So that's what drags you all here.!!!!
<uboy>  with out disappointing?
<even>  or should we just keep to ourselves
<Amstel>  so where is everybody (ie those not in fantasyland)?
<even>  we were wondering earlier if you can have sentimental sex 
  with yourself?
<FarmerP>  Why keep to yourselves - it would be just as boring as 
   all the other chats are at present
<even>  but you are by yourself
<skier>  well i agree that pressing against naked guys in the 
   shower makes me hornier 'cos they're straight therefore 
* FarmerP is in Cork Amstel
<uboy>  so unavailable is more exciting?
<skier>  suppose so
<even>  how does that work sideways uboy?
<uboy>  always want what you can't have
<even>  that kept me going through puperty
<FarmerP>  Still very quite - so i'll quit for now and be back 
<FarmerP>  see you guys
<FarmerP>  bye
<skier>  k
<even>  thanks
*** FarmerP (Corkboy@p29.cork1.tinet.ie) has left #sentimental
<Amstel>  im off too cu guys later
*** Amstel (Hi@asd29-isdn.worldaccess.nl) has left #sentimental
<skier>  so alan u want 2 know what happens?
<even>  i want to make art about it you see
<skier>  this has happened 2 me
<uboy>  art?
<even>  and understand how to get away from sentimental toward 
  something with an edge
<even>  what are you sending me skier?
<skier>  an explanation
<even>  ok 
<skier>  there r usually about 80 guys in a small shower room
<uboy>  80??
<skier>  u have to fpush through the rest 2 get to the water
<skier>  i just love it:)
<skier>  yea there r 2000 ppl in my scholl
<skier>  largest in ireland
<even>  where is this i wnat to know! :)
<skier>  in belfast - i'd better not tell u the place
<even>  so the pictures illustrate what exactly? apart from f-ing 
  and s-ing?
<skier>  public school life - and why fantasy is important
<skier>  i had the fantasy and real thing
<even>  lucky you
<skier>  the real thing far excelled the fantasy
<uboy>  how so?
<even>  it should really... but  sometimes it is disappointing... 
  when Mr fantasy is not as you expected... but you dont have 
  that problem
<skier>  i always wanted 2 fuck a guy in the lockeroom and i did 
   - wih 3 guys watching:)
<even>  i do not believe you
<even>  didn't they want to beat you up?
<skier>  u don't have 2
<even>  i mean locker room fantasy is one thing but unless it was 
  a gay sauna i cant imagine it happening
<skier>  it was a select few of the rugby team
<even>  rugger buggers eh?
<skier>  about 10 guys that i know are active gays - i just took 
   advantage of the fact
<even>  that helps... is it a big team?
<skier>  all the guys have 2 play rugby
<skier>  loads of teams
<even>  i see
<skier>  i've jo'd a soldier 
<even>  so now you are out of fantasys?
<even>  i dunno if i will ever realise mine, that's why i dont try
<skier>  still have the one about fucking a guy in a biology 
   class room
<even>  with the class in attendance or the disescted frogs?
<skier>  gas tap up his ass
<even>  ouch
<uboy>  lol
<skier>  one particular guy, neil, excellent ass
*** cyberguyy (susst@orion.irelands-web.ie) has joined 
<even>  hi cb
<uboy>  hello cy
<even>  what else happens?
* cyberguyy is following Alan from one bar to another
<even>  whats yours uboy... since it would involve girls?
<cyberguyy>  Hi Alan...wassup?
<even>  we are talking fantasy
<even>  solotary
<skier>  i'd like 2 fuck a guy and girl at same time
<even>  who where?
<cyberguyy>  That would be nice.
<skier>  a guy called chris, a girl called louisa
<even>  ever wondered about electrocution of the nipples? good 
  tingle can be had from loud speaker i hear... according to uboy
<skier>  like 2 fuck someone on a snowy mountain 2
<even>  or in a speeding car
<uboy>  a mountain... any one else here like the outdoors?
<even>  or bin liners?
<cyberguyy>  Do explain a bit more Alan, I'm facinated
<uboy>  i've done it a few times... but its a hassle
<even>  you know the no air thing, can be a little dangerous, 
  makes you harder apparently, right uboy?
<uboy>  i've heard something about it
<skier>  i wanna fuck u all
<even>  oh thanks
<even>  come on down then!
<even>  youre in belfast right?
<even>  well?
<skier>  yup
<skier>  but u wouldn't want a liitle 17 yo fucking u 
<skier>  or is that a fantasty :D
<even>  thats almost illegal :)
<uboy>  goodbye all
<even>  bye uboy
<even>  what age do you think i am anyway
<skier>  see ya
<skier>  the law is crap
<even>  yes when it comes to pure lust
<skier>  20 something?
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<even>  isn't this confirming the obvious
<uboy>  which is?
<uboy>  people like to talk dirty?
<even>  i know so to what end... for us?
<uboy>  good question
<uboy>  try to root through it all?
<uboy>  hope a spark will happen?
<even>  lets continue talking to eachother as if they were not there
<uboy>  ok
<even>  he is sending pics?????
<uboy>  hhhhmmm
<even>  porno pics young lads fucking? yikes
<uboy>  yikes indeed
<even>  maybe we should take a break... how much tim e do you have
<even>  well?
<even>  is this getting too kinky?
<uboy>  no, we may be able to use it...
<uboy>  get a feel for how this whole thing will play out
<even>  but it is all obvious fantasy thing.... play point taken
<even>  i dunno if i will ever realise mine, that's why i dont try
<even>  opps
<even>  this is silly
<uboy>  yes
<even>  should we stop for a half hour, for tea, then talk for real bet us two?
<uboy>  can we make it tomorrow?
<even>  need to go out? i am kind of tired anyway... back tomorrow with proper questions... 
tomorow I can only do it after 6pm- cheap rate etc   ... ?
<uboy>  that's good, actually... shall we say a little after six your time?
<even>  7 then
<uboy>  i want to sit back and evaluate what just happened
<uboy>  seven is good
<even>  like is there a point?
<even>  is this dialogue or dirty talk straight up
<uboy>  i'll dig around for one
<uboy>  dirty talk
<uboy>  but we can use it in dialogue
<uboy>  reserve your judgement
<even>  yes
<even>  we'll exchange then
<uboy>  ok, seven your time
<uboy>  seee you then

DCC session closed