Session Start: Sun Nov 09 18:08:36 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 18:02:08<even>  hey<even>  hello<uboy>  hello<even>  check the site... reload page1<uboy>  just saw the new button..<uboy>  at the site<even>  i posted the other options under *new*<even>  can u see color?<uboy>  will go again.. just a sec<even>  how are u btw?<uboy>  btw?<even>  by the way<uboy>  doing ok, and you?<even>  fine fine<uboy>  good<uboy>  i'm loading the page now<even>  not sure if the liam colours will work on your browser... they only worked for me on Netscape3<even>  did the e-mail?<uboy>  just seeing the warps for the first time b/c still having trouble with multipart mime<even>  oic<uboy>  they are very funky<even>  i thought the yours were too liam like<uboy>  i see color... lots of it<even>  so i filtered<uboy>  very nice<even>  the squares?<even>  too liam<even>  like a platform!<uboy>  no, i mean your filters are nice<uboy>  very groovy<even>  oic<even>  really<even>  i think u need to play with them now!<even>  go collab go<even>  like<uboy>  yes<even>  maybe<uboy>  lol<even>  what do they mean?<even>  in our context?<uboy>  tell me about the page prior to that<even>  well do u see dots or colours?<uboy>  i see color rectangles with tiny pixels<even>  thats good... that the tribute to liam<even>  thats<uboy>  praise l<even>  no out-manoeuver him<uboy>  ok, context for us<uboy>  hhmm...<even>  it would be slick and neo-geo<even>  is that relevant?<uboy>  they feel also like new age retro happy posters<even>  would make nice paintings!<even>  get yer brush out<uboy>  they may be effective masks for the content<uboy>  can we claim they represent structures?<even>  can we indeed<uboy>  maps of regions of the unconcious?<uboy>  etc.<uboy>  etc.<uboy>  subjectivity zonal things<uboy>  region of interiority<uboy>  vs.<even>  there u go again<uboy>  external stimuli<uboy>  yes<uboy>  liminal interfaces<even>  liminal is a word i do not know... limits to paths... pointers?<uboy>  threshhold of sensory perception<even>  gees<uboy>  inded<uboy>  indeed<even>  do u think the non text way is the way?<even>  or would it be too annoying to naviagate?<uboy>  non text?<uboy>  you mean for the buttons<even>  no words at first...<uboy>  i like the unfulfilled promise that text and image together provides<uboy>  relational<even>  suppose so<even>  or just an old time disjunction<even>  old time fragmented everything<uboy>  true<even>  we need to groove a little more to be relational<even>  the missing piece is...<uboy>  yes<uboy>  ...<even>  is not to have a technological fantasy<even>  is to leave it open... the abstracts are a little closed<even>  even tho groovey<uboy>  how do you mean, leave it open?<even>  room<even>  to not guess or figure it out<even>  nah<even>  emm<even>  open is not necessarily relational... the word text thing we are stuck with goes against the relational i reckon<uboy>  don't over work things?<even>  its an object & word thing <even>  an object paints a thouseand words<uboy>  or a situational<even>  yes... but not in political way<uboy>  no<uboy>  but, where is the room to find our own way?<even>  unless we want to work in a critique of capitalism or new socialism into this!<uboy>  we must allow ourselves to make mistakes<even>  we are<uboy>  just keep going and learn<even>  but not when on line as much... and open to the public like<even>  the structure cant changes that much... nobody reloads... the old cache rules<uboy>  well, perhaps not in the show, but why not online?<even>  unless there is a way of forcing that to happen<uboy>  well, not radical restructuring i suppose<even>  the show will be done once<even>  the site will grow<uboy>  good<even>  but we need radical now<even>  and i hate the nav buttons too<uboy>  the show is a derivitive<even>  i hate it all<even>  i am derivitive<even>  i am so unhappy :(<uboy>  me too<even>  well not really<even>  just anxious to figure this hurdle out<uboy>  yes<uboy>  so, we move on<even>  enough moaning<even>  are we cause and effect or effect followed by cause or just resultsSession Close: Sun Nov 09 18:37:38 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 18:39:44 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 18:02:08<even>  back<even>  <uboy>  so, we move on<even>  <even>  enough moaning<even>  <even>  are we cause and effect or effect followed by cause or just results<even>  Session Close: Sun Nov 09 18:37:38 1997<uboy>  hello<uboy>  still here<uboy>  ?<even>  i am back<even>  did u get my last bit?<uboy>  hello, yes<uboy>  about cause and effecct?<even>  are we cause and effect or effect followed by cause or just results*** even has quit IRC (Ping timeout for even[])<uboy>  it seems rather effect followed by cause... at least untill we find our own way<uboy>  our own lies<even>  well our stories<even>  how do we feel about narrative?<even>  or u even<uboy>  so, what can we take from the first site try?<even>  dont understand<uboy>  i like these dispersed narrative... and the implied narrative of us doing the project<even>  ???so, what can we take from the first site try?<uboy>  i guess that started with the notion of sentimentalizing these clinical descriptions; at least for me<even>  yes the beginning which we have lost sight of<even>  in the rush to html maybe<uboy>  that's where the narrative urge started<uboy>  well, the beginnning was always rather fuzzy<uboy>  which is good, in many ways<even>  yea but when the project is summarized it is quite straightforward<uboy>  perhaps we are fighting it?<even>  yeaSession Close: Sun Nov 09 18:49:18 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 18:49:59 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 18:02:08<even>  gees<even>  hello?<uboy>  hello again<even>  hmmm<uboy>  i was saying...<uboy>  hello<even>  ok<uboy>  while it may all seems straight forward to us, i think we actually have so much going on that other may feel confused<uboy>  about our intention<even>  true but we need to be happy too<uboy>  which is fine<even>  so problem persists<uboy>  right, my point exactly<uboy>  balance things out for us<uboy>  in other words, we see liam around every corner...<uboy>  others will not*** every has quit IRC (Ping timeout for every[])<even>  so do we keep the basic strucutre of hyper-fiction behind page1?<uboy>  don't settle for derivitive, but<uboy>  the new page1?<even>  dunno... u should play with it<even>  bounce it between us for another day or so<even>  new buttons needed too<uboy>  i think we should use the structure of writing hyper fiction, but not this is a hyper fiction<uboy>  does that make sense?<even>  yes<uboy>  right<even>  it is a scrapbook aparently<uboy>  well, yes, but perhaps more like a scrapbook of the scrapbook<even>  wow<even>  but is the www effort worth it for us and how we make things?<uboy>  in the sense that the process of pasting things in is as important as the scrap... or something like that<uboy>  yes, b/c in a very practical sense how else can we do it? regular mail<uboy>  ?<uboy>  it about that distance between us<uboy>  and opening that that up<even>  yes of course<even>  as we have no money<uboy>  2 subjects<uboy>  it is our great fiction in itself<even>  indeed<even>  but<uboy>  the show is a derivitive in the calculus sense<even>  i think i get that<even>  fine .... i just want to be happy about the site that it can almost be art too<even>  has to maintain a mystery of sorts<uboy>  yes, i want that as well<even>  so for example<even>  the shopping list<even>  how do we develop it<even>  ii chatted to the prop buyer last night<even>  and she will price the stuff<even>  might go to Amsterdam with her too in  a few weeks<even>  for a break from the break<uboy>  sounds good<uboy>  right<uboy>  the literal break?<even>  yea<even>  so do we continue to plug the development of this excercise?<uboy>  the web exercise, the process itself?<even>  the video idea<uboy>  yes, i like her as the intermediary<even>  plug<even>  and where is the sentimental sex?<uboy>  it's one interpretation of a middle ground, anyway<even>  to be discovered en route i know<even>  yes the middle<even>  any other ideas for video stuff down your end?<even>  for the multi-screen?<even>  like<uboy>  well, i still like the idea of exploiting our distance<uboy>  straight forward videos of kiosks we each have<even>  u have mentioned that before...  ummm and<uboy>  except the kiosks are not really that<uboy>  perhaops they are only conceptual spaces we each project onto actual locations<uboy>  in our respective areas<even>  convince me why i should not HATE kiosks as they remind me of so much techno multimedia nothing museum stuff... another word maybe<even>  i have to let my mommy make a call... can we break for 20 mins?<even>  ok<even>  ?<even>  ?<even>  ?<even>  quick<even>  gonna get cut<uboy>  b/c it's not a kiosk at all, only using that for a point of refernce. it could be a fabric panel or two, rearranged steating , some other situation.<even>  ?<uboy>  chalk lines<even>  k<even>  bye<even>  hey u<even>  am i lagged<even>  or u?<even>  1/2 hour<even>  ok<even>  ?<even>  ?<even>  ?<uboy>  hello<even>  got to break... did u get that?<uboy>  hello<uboy>  ?<even>  mom wants to use the phone<even>  back in 1/2 hour<even>  is that ok<uboy>  get what?<even>  <even>  mom wants to use the phone<even>  <even>  back in 1/2 hour<uboy>  ok, did you get my response to kiosk quest.?<even>  yes<even>  <uboy>  b/c it's not a kiosk at all, only using that for a point of refernce. it could be a fabric panel or two, rearranged steating , some other situation.<even>  7:45 then<even>  ok<uboy>  ok think about it... see you in 1/2 hour<even>  k<uboy>  yes, okSession Close: Sun Nov 09 19:15:45 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 20:35:26 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 20:41:49<even>  fuck u are not thereSession Close: Sun Nov 09 20:36:59 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 20:38:12 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 20:23:23<even>  sorry<even>  got a bollocking for being on the phone<even>  then a soap started <uboy>  that's ok<even>  and the call got delayed<uboy>  ouch<even>  have to get a subsidy<even>  or just do this late<even>  it doesnt even cost that much<even>  its a mental control parent thing<uboy>  how much are you charged?<even>  yikes... have u been here for ages?<even>  not charged much at all really<even>  but we get a breakdown and my calls to the ISP are all over it<even>  but all pennies really<even>  dont add up to much<uboy>  ok<even>  so what were we on about<uboy>  all local calls for me , no fee<uboy>  yes, well the kiosk thing, but more importantly<uboy>  well, everything , i guess<even>  gosh i am so envious of the us phone thing<even>  USA that is<even>  so kiosks are a misnomer<uboy>  well, everyone has to be good at one thing<uboy>  right<uboy>  liminal interface... ? lol<even>  uh yea<even>  ?<even>  so the video has rooms or situations that are similar or share what... flicking<uboy>  kiosk in constructivist and utopian<uboy>  kiosk is<uboy>  well, perhaps just similar titles or rhetoric or supossed results<even>  no no visually i mean<uboy>  ok<uboy>  could be as simple as very basic elements ... 3 chairs<uboy>  a chalk square 3 fett away from a wall<uboy>  perhaps a similar camera angle to unify<even>  very conceptual :)<uboy>  hhmmmm<even>  and i was just kidding... i know it is a young idea as yet<even>  as are all of them<uboy>  but also, they either gather or disseminate information, perhaps<uboy>  right<even>  like kosuth and his<even>  things... tracts o text<even>  mountains of it<even>  that nobody reads<even>  hehehehe<uboy>  kosuth=chair<even>  and the root of all evil<even>  this is slow...<even>  or is it me lagging-> [even] PING-> [uboy] PING<uboy>  but, all this seems a little further down the road<uboy>  slow...<even>  fuck i have to get off line again<uboy>  s..l...o....w...<even>  yes 18 second ping<uboy>  ok<uboy>  is there a better time/day for you?<even>  so 10 minutes this time<uboy>  ok<even>  brb<uboy>  ?Session Close: Sun Nov 09 20:54:39 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 21:00:33 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 20:23:23<even>  me again-> [uboy] PING<even>  still very slowSession Close: Sun Nov 09 21:03:12 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 21:05:33 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 20:23:23<even>  very slow... got cut<uboy>  hello<uboy>  me too-> [uboy] PING<even>  16 sec ping<even>  better<uboy>  so, to continue, i guess...<even>  we can try for a bit<even>  but i am a little fragg-ed<even>  and still lagged*** even has quit IRC (Ping timeout for even[])<uboy>  yes<uboy>  me too, i think<uboy>  let's go to something more basic<uboy>  are we going ahead with the thread/daily story idea?<uboy>  r u still into that?<even>  yes<even>  will get on it tomorrow<uboy>  good<uboy>  ok<even>  the page1 problem?<uboy>  yes, page 1<even>  will u crunch a bit on what i did<uboy>  yes<uboy>  i'll come up with four or five alternate ideasSession Close: Sun Nov 09 21:11:24 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 21:33:00 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 21:39:31-> [every] PINGSession Close: Sun Nov 09 21:37:52 1997Session Start: Sun Nov 09 21:44:59 1997*** Now talking in #sentimental#sentimental created on Sun Nov 09 21:51:31<even>  gone dead<even>  aloneSession Close: Sun Nov 09 22:22:52 1997